Are Trees Sentient?

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Some people believe trees to be sentient beings. Like for example the beautiful old oak that’s stood for hundreds of years. What must those trees have seen? Certain religious groups use trees as energy points believing them to possess magical healing powers but what actually makes them sentient?  In Buddhism, sentient beings are beings with consciousness, sentience, or in some contexts life itself. Sentient beings are composed of the five aggregates, or skandhas: matter, sensation, perception, mental formations and consciousness. Trees according to Buddhism, are qualitatively different from humans and sentient nonhumans, in that they are certainly alive, but they don’t have interests or the ability to learn from experience.  A tree may react to sunlight, water, the changing seasons and other stimuli etc but that does not necessarily mean it’s sentient.

What are your thoughts on the subject? Let’s have a conversation! – Are trees sentient beings? If so why?

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30 thoughts on “Are Trees Sentient?

    • Hi QP I’m so sorry I seemed to have missed your question and then I went away so didn’t blog so much. Anyway to answer your question. I believe the 4 schools are already unified in respect that they accept and acknowledge each other’s practices, deities and philosophies. There may be subtle differences in the way each school debates or learns about philosophy but on the whole there appears to be very little if any separatism. The Gelug which is my own liniage is newer and much more scientific than the others however, we have much to learn from the other schools which is why we use the art of debate.
      I believe we were discussing the NKT when this subject came up and the practice of Shugden worship. The Dorje Shugden followers have not been banned from The Dalai Lamas teachings at all. They have been asked not to attend whilst accepting only this particular wrathful deity as their guru if you like because of the likelihood it will damage or bring Ill omen to the other teachings. The Dorje Shugden followers are Gelupa school but have split off into their own small school now known as New Kadampa

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      • Thanks for getting back to me on this Julie. I both agree and disagree with you here. But I do think that this issue is far bigger than the New Kadampa’s problem with the Dalai Lama.
        Do you know of the Remé movement from Jamgon Kontrol Rimpoche and Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo Rimpoche? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimé_movement In this way the three older schools came together willingly and with good success to highlight and preserve their differences respectfully. You may notice that the Gelugpas were not part of this movement. There are however many examples of forced unity/conversions of whole monasteries at the hands of the gelugpas over the many years so when a gelugpa talks about unity the other lineages get nervous and for good reason. I would also add that this issue with the new Kadampas also must be seen through a political lens just as one must see the interference of the Dalai Lama in the Kagyu Karmapa issue where the Dalia Lama has actually supported a split in the lineage instead of looking for any sort of harmony or solution. While the Gelugpas were debating how to take over the other schools were meditating. I don’t mean this personally to insult you in any way shape or form but one should be aware of the history of prosecution the Gelugpas have inflicted on the other schools sometimes even leading to wars and invasions. Please read Tibet a history by Sam van Schaik https://www.amazon.com/Tibet-History-Sam-van-Schaik/dp/0300194102 its eye opening but a very easy read. It might be interesting for you to see this in a new light from a non partisan perspective.
        Were you aware of any of this before?

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      • Hi QP
        Thank you so much for this, yes I’d heard of this movement but never actually looked at it so deeply I’m very grateful to you for sharing. I’m fully supportive of what this movement are about & their philosophy on life and on Buddhism. I have to say though, the separatism between the Gelugpa and the Nyingma Sakya & Kagu schools isn’t something I’ve personally experienced. For example I was fortunate enough to study Buddhism at the Dalai Lamas Monastery with my teacher and was always encouraged to study the other 3 schools too and their practices as part of my duty to keep Tibetan Buddhism all embracing. One way I have found the Gelugpa to differ from the other schools though, is in the fact we are more of a science & logic based school . You didn’t insult me in any way by what you said and I agree the Gelugpa do seem quite an odd bunch. We believe through evidence in cause and effect & the law of causality and are taught never to accept anything (Not even the teachings of a spiritual leader) before scrutinising it first. Then if it feels right move with it and if not, discard it. The problem we have is many don’t do this and accept things as gospel. You’re right what you’re saying about the other 3 schools meditating whilst other stuff is going on but this is their practice. If you wander into any Gelugpa monastery which I’m sure you have already, you’ll hear the noisy debating of Tibetan Buddhist philosophy whereas the other 3 tend to mostly use meditative practice instead of debate. Thank you so much once again.

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      • I don’t really think that the Gelugpas school is more scientific than anyone else because Buddhism as a whole agrees with science, even the Buddha encouraged us not to trust him but to prove it to ourselves. So this idea is common in all schools new old great or small. The laboratory of the mind is a wonderful place to experience many things, and cause and effect can been seen here as well for all. Science is cause and effect and so is all Buddhism. This is one thing I found personally very refreshing in Buddhist practice, nothing that one must blindly believe, as in Christianity.
        A logical or intellectual understanding of the Buddhadharma is a wonderful thing to have, we are also encouraged to do this but only after our first Ngondro, if one is to realize anything it will happen in the meditation cushion not in the classroom. A Ngondro practice will take years, it is however for me one of the most profound experiences of my life, and the second Ngondro is even better. Did I ask you if you do Ngondro? Most lamas ask for Ngondro to be completed before going any of the six practices of Naropa.
        All Tibetans like to debate, if you have three Tibetans at a table you will surely have 5 opinions. The difference is the focus here and is it for learning or for control. Unfortunately for Tibet they never had any separation between church and state and this led to many if not all of their problems.
        As you have also likely guessed already I come from the other 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje and the 14th Kunzig Shamar Rimpoche. For us the Dalai Lama brought the lineage a lot of pain in the separation we have when he supported and without any right recognized the Chinese Karmapa. If he knew that he was interfering in our Kagyu affairs he should not have, and if he didn’t know, he really should have known his place. But even here karma or cause and effect will work as the current Dalai Lama will now experience the same Chinese interference in his lineage and rebirth. This makes me sad as it is so unneeded especially after all the pain China has already caused the Tibetans, they do not need any more. The 16th Karmapa warned many of his students of mixing politics and dharma practice and only some of them listened. High lamas are not immune from greed and hunger from power. That’s why they are all to take the vinaya vows.
        As for the other Chinese Karmapa I see that you have met him, I feel so sorry for him he is really sandwiched in between a rock and a hard place. His depression is very deep and he cannot at this time continue his duties at all, his problems with the Indian government are very serious and are not being made any better by his actions with his secret Panama investment accounts and now his new Passport form Dominica a government totally under the influence of Chinese money. I have watched all four or five of his last video addresses and I can only shed a tear and wish him the end of his deep pain and a respectful exit from public life where he can find some peace like his own Jamgon Kontrol Rimpoche fought so hard to find several years ago as he left his monastery in a very public way. Meanwhile Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje’s activity peacefully grows and now that the 15th Sharmapa has been born the transmission from teacher to student continues uninterrupted. Hummm Tibetans are so complicated.

        Did you know about all this in the Kagyu lineage?

        QP

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      • Hi there, thank you for your response. I love these discussions and the information that passes back and forth. It’s really refreshing to hear different viewpoints and to be able to discuss these rationally.
        Yes I agree there has been much controversy about the 2 Karmapa and also that one appears to be more recognised by His Holiness the Dalai Lama than the other. In answer to your question, unfortunately or fortunately I hadn’t actually given much thought to which Karmapa you may follow. To be perfectly honest I believe again it comes down to what feels right for the student, scholar or practitioner and whom they choose to accept. Yes the laboratory of the mind is a wonderful place to experience many things as you say and that’s what I love about Buddhism it’s all about the mind.
        I agree with you 100% that the Tibetans have endured so much under Chinese oppression, the last thing they need is further issues. Did you spend time recently in Dharamsala? I wasn’t sure if you mentioned you had.
        The reason I asked is because there you get an interesting picture from those who’ve fled China and what they feel maybe the best ways forward. Of course there’s a divide between those who want autonomy & those who want absolute freedom.
        Now about Ngondro, oh yes they are I agree extremely important in Buddhism although I recognise they are done differently in Gelugpa practice.
        As you most likely know, there are two main ways (At least I only know of 2 there may be more)
        The first is in preparation for the wider Buddhist practice to help the practitioner eradicate mental blocks etc. Although it doesn’t of course apply to everyone, In the West I find many turn to Buddhism etc because something isn’t going right in their life and they want a solution. In this case Ngondro practice is very helpful in the beginning. of doing the ngondro practices: as preparation at the start of our Buddhist study and practice, or as a boost to enhance them along the way.
        In the Gelugpa tradition, ngondro practices are done along the way and not so much as a start for Buddhist practice. They are done to enhance the learning of both sutra and tantra practice. I’m fortunate to have been taken through both, although after many years as a practitioner I’ve only learned a fraction of all there is.
        Please keep posting I really enjoy our sharing of viewpoints.

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      • Hey that’s right the free flow of ideas is never a bad thing.
        I guess by comparing the Shungden issue with the Karmapa issue I see a common factor, the Dalai Lama, who in my opinion divides more than he brings beings together. If it where just me I would side with the new Kadampas, but in reality I would have to ask others more learned and respected than I what is right and wrong here. Are there any good books on the matter?
        I have never been to Dharamsala but I would love to go. I have however been many many holy places in India including Sikkim (rumtek) a well as many holy places in Nepal. As far as the 100000 Tibetans in India go they have many wants and ideas but really no choice whatsoever. China has won they will never get Tibet back, and that’s really sad. However the real blessing is that Buddhism has been exported into the west as a result of Mao. A wonderful lady in my sangha made a documentary about Buddhism coming west, the Karmapa, and two of his western students my lama and his wife, a very powerful woman. You might enjoy it. I could send it to you with Dropbox if you are interested.

        We do not study the sutras much. I have a bit, namely the lotus, diamond, and heart sutras. I don’t find too much difference between them and the texts we have and the lectures and books from Kagyu lamas. The Karmapa encourages us to study the Abidharma and he loves Shantideva and the way of the bhodisattwa. But as much as one studies the real work is on the meditation cushion. Nhondro and Yidam practice is the real meat and potatoes with us. Oh and we also use the mahamudra texts from Tilopa, the third Karmapa, and lama Shang very often. I find them very inspiring.
        Most of the practitioners I know did not start into Buddhism because things were not good in their lives instead they started because they were spiritually inspired by the Buddha’s teachings in ways the church could never hope to do and many were also children of the 60’s and found truth in the Buddhadharma that the drugs could never give. I think it’s the search for truth and lasting happiness, that’s a driving force. People who are unwell mentally are discouraged from our meditative practices. Searching for or looking at the true nature of mind is not for the mentally ill and many dharma Centres have been very disturbed and upended by mentally ill people that should have been under the care of a psychiatrist. How is this with you guys?

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      • Hi QP Yes the free flow of ideas is good.
        I agree there are many different viewpoints on the Dalai Lama and his role with other Tibetans. My personal experience of practicing in the way of His Holiness the Dalai Lama is that he is not a separatist however, I can fully respect the Kadampa viewpoint too as they want to remain in the Gelug tradition but with their own deity which in effect they’ve been able to do. The only thing they’ve been asked not to do is attend The Dalai Lamas teaching. The reason I asked about whether or not you’d been to Dharamsala is because there’s a very obvious divide in the Tibetan community between those who want freedom & those who want autonomy. Many of the older Tibetans alongside His Holiness support autonomy but are not against Chinese rule as they believe China could bring Tibetans more into the 21st C and help them progress further. Then there are the younger Tibetans who are now no longer able to speak their mother tongue in their own land. They are persecuted for even the mere mention of the Dalai Lama tortured & often killed being told he’s a separatist and other stuff. Those who survive, often make the journey to escape on foot across the Himalaya only to find when they reach india, that nothing is the way they’ve been taught. They are then funded so they can learn more about Tibetan language and culture. This is the point they often protest for freedom of their country and against their brothers and sisters who want autonomy.
        I agree with you 100% a positive thing about Mao is that Buddhism spread through the west . Of course our experiences are different, but many people I’ve spoken with who study with me, did so because of personal issues, stress related problems or difficulties coping with life in some way or other. Please don’t get me wrong there’s nothing wrong with this, in fact it’s wonderful I think that they’ve found peace this way and as you say, the church seems less likely in many cases to provide this peace.
        I’m partly in agreement with you about the true nature of mind and mental health although personally I don’t always discourage people from meditative practices however the technique may differ from other scholars. If a person is so ill they need psychiatric treatment however, then yes I agree maybe it isn’t for them.

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      • Good day I definitely think that calling the Dalai Lama a separatist is not accurate, he does not want to separate the Tibetans he clearly wants to unite them under the gelugpa umbrella. The only trouble is the other schools do not want this. They say hey we are already Remé schools we celebrate and accept our differences and can pass on the transmission in the spirit in which it was meant to be even though I come from another school. The tenth Karmapa was for a time also the leader of the Ningmapa school and it was ok because the Ningmapas wanted it so. The previous Dalai Lamas had in several occasions invited the mongols to invade Tibet and blamed other for it and then took over their monasteries afterwards in order to unite. Starting wars to unite the Tibetans, with all the dharma teachings how could they do that? So separatist is not the right word but partisan is. And I believe that this particular Dalai Lama was also naive to think he could negotiate with Mao. After the first negotiation with Mao the 16th Karmapa who was with the Dalai Lama came home to Tsurphu and started planning to escape. He even wrote a children’s song about the escape route through Bhutan. It was naive to think Mao would honestly negotiate he never had a sense of honour like the former emperors did. So this is actually a dharma lesson of karma and impermanence. The karma from the wars should be clear and that Tibet is impermanent is also clear but sad. I am reminded of something Karmapa Thaye Dorje said about Bhodisattvas, he said they just keep going. That’s what the Tibetans should do keep going on and never back. They can be thankful that mother India took them in and the ones still in China should either escape or join the Chinese. Fighting will not work self immolation will not work, the Chinese have no shame or honour in this regard. It’s a very sad thing to say but it will but change otherwise.
        With the Kadampas I think if you asked them the feel that they have been kicked out, their practice has been banned. They needn’t stay gelugpas they were once their own school before the gelugpas they could just revive it. I honestly don’t know much more. But there is no need to protest if they are not very unhappy.

        So I am curious, in your school how does one decide to do Ngondro or not? And how is the practice different?

        Did you hear the Dalai Lama is in hospital, I hope he pulls through. If he doesn’t I hope his house is in order and that the Tibetan government in exile is ready to do what needs to be done. They still have not had their big meeting that was postponed last lese have they?

        QP

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      • Hello yes I hear what you’re saying and I agree with you 100% about the Dalai Lama being very naeive to think he could negotiate fairly with Mao. I guess maturity comes with age doesn’t it though? And he was very young at the time he was placed in the position of leading Tibetans. In fairness, almost all of China were taken in by Mao. Yes the majority of Tibetans especially the older ones are very greatful to India for offering sanctuary it’s made a huge difference to them. You ask about Ngondro and how we decide In the Gelug liniage. The answer to this, as we go through our practice we decide for ourselves at which stage we do it. The Ngondro is done more to enhance our practice rather than prepare before starting. It’s just a different way of practicing. Again it comes down to personal choice really when we do the Ngondro.
        Oh yes I heard about the Dalai Lama being in hospital thank goodness he’s been discharged from hospital. Getting older is hard isn’t it?

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      • Old age, sickness, death and loss gets us all, enlightened or not. I hope his followers have some more time with him and that they can prepare. China will it make this an easy transition, to be sure. Do you agree a little bit on the partisan point?

        Now to Ngondro we also get to choose, it is not mandatory, but if one what’s a yidam practice it needs to be done before. So it is therefore the preliminary to the yidam practice. Some students do not do it and are completely happy. There are even some students who have been asked not to do it, for reasons of emotional instability, often the lama would advise 1 million chenrezig mantras and then maybe the Ngondro. But I could understand that after one million one might just as well carry on, if it does one good.
        Do you have the same four practices and are they done in the same order?

        Thanks once again for share

        QP

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      • Hi QP yes I do understand what you’re saying on a partisan level but much of what you’ve said hasn’t actually been my direct experience so I can’t say I agree with your viewpoints on the Dalai Lama. This I believe is the absolute wonder and beauty of Buddhism when it says that we must go and experience for ourselves and then accept only what seems right and genuine. Therefore I fully acknowledge and respect your points of view. Yes in terms of Ngondro we have the same practices as other schools but different interpretations of them depending on the teacher & practitioner. I guess it’s a little bit like the sutras etc. I’ve read & heard some beautiful commentaries on various sutras but all differ slightly because of interpretation. Thank you

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      • Hello and a wonderful Saturday afternoon to you!
        I understand what you mean about your experience with the Dalai Lama, it is only logical that we differ based on our own perspective and resulting experience. But that we can differ and discuss our opinions with respect is the direct result of our personal Buddhist practice. Although we have a different practice and perspective, the results are very similar, namely openness, understanding, and respect of and for our shared Buddha nature.
        I have an idea I would like to ask you to recommend to me something to read that encapsulates your experience with the Dalai Lama. I want to try to see him through your eyes so to speak. And if you are interested I would do the same for you 🙂 it’s sort of a homework assignment.

        I would be very interested in knowing more about the Gelugpa interpretations of Ngondro. Please share with me what you can on this matter.

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      • Hi, thank you for your response to my post I love discussing Buddhism and the many different perspectives we have on it. In relation to my experience of the Dalai Lama, I would like to share something with you which validated my viewpoint. A few years ago I’d tell you proudly I was a Buddhist. I was very proud of the fact I could sit for at least an hour in meditation, and when people would ask about my experiences I would be the first one to say I could sit for an hour. I now realise that my meditation at that time was pretty pointless and achieved very little except a numb rear end😊 In 2010 I went to India for the first time and spent a year there, but I’d like to take you back to 2005 when something very significant happened in my life. My Husband was brutally murdered in the most horrific knife attack. Before this happened we had many hopes and dreams about things we wanted to do together. We’d both been pretty wild in our younger days, and were ready to settle down and start making plans but this was cut short. My job as a social worker didn’t seem as fulfilling any more, and so one day I woke up and decided I would go to India on a sabbatical. This is how I ended up in Dharamsala which is now the home of The Dalai Lama. Every morning at 5.30am I’d go onto the rooftop to meditate and it was just impossible. There wasn’t a single moment I could relax into meditation, which is what I needed. Anyway to cut a long story short, I had made friends with a monk who was taking time to work in the place I was staying. He offered to introduce me to his teacher, a rinpoche at the Dalai Lama’s monastery and there I studied alongside him as my teacher also. After a few months I received an invitation to meet with the Dalai Lama himself and we spent some 2 hours talking about my meditation practice, the struggles and what happened to my husband. What he told me completely changed my life. He suggested I forgive his killer, and that the fact he had been reborn into this terrible life was something warranting compassion not anger. He was right, he also spoke about how he forgives the Chinese Government even after lots of Tibetans died because it comes down to karma at the end of the day. Anyway, to cut a long story short from that moment my meditation practice improved. Instead of sitting for one hour and achieving pretty little, I now started to sit for 10 minutes and focus on compassion for my partners killer. I started to practice Tonglen & Maitre practices I’d never even heard of, but which helped me cultivate compassion. On returning to the UK I arranged a meeting with this person, and through dialogue, patience & compassion and we made our peace.

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      • Wow that’s a very powerful connection you have with the Dalai Lama and now with the killer. Compassion is more powerful than anything this man could have or did do, and you proved it. I am truly sorry for your loss, but at the same time you could not have found any better way to dissolve it. This is really a deep and touching teaching, thank you for sharing it with me. I could guess that this was the start of your healing room?

        I would like to express that that I have come to understand something better in our chats. First I know that the way I phrased some things directly at the Dalai Lama I could have phrased them more at the institution not really the person, as there is a difference. Secondly when we as Buddhists discuss things like the Dorje Shungen and Karmapa Controversy we should recognize that this is politics not dharma. They need to have a healthy distance from one another as we try do do in the west with the separation of church and state. Political discussions will/can inevitably lead to problems, whereas discussing the dharma will lead us to truth.

        It’s late so I am off now, but tomorrow I will have a dharma question for you.

        QP

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      • If you wish to still talk about political things in Buddhism it’s ok I am cool with that because I do trust you, and I still wish we could share a cup of tea one day.

        But the question I have is a dharma one. I am reading a book called secret Buddhism by Kalu Rimpoche one of my lamas teachers. In the book he says this:
        “Mind innate is itself is dharmakaya. Appearances are the luminosity of dharmakaya. Vajrayana teaches the union of mind and appearances. Emptiness is achieved in this union. While Mahayana insists on emptiness of all phenomena, Vajrayana insists on the union of manifestation and emptiness, emphasizing clarity.”
        Is this a difference you see between the Kagyu and Gelug traditions or is it the same?

        QP

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      • Hi QP I hope you are well. Personally I prefer not to talk politics but I also feel at ease doing so. I loved the question because to me, the concept of emptiness is a wonderful topic. At one time I couldn’t grasp this concept at all, to me it was ridiculous to think ‘how can my cup of coffee be void of self?’ Or how am I standing here but be void of self? ‘Empty’
        Of course I understand now but it took a while anyway to your question Gelug school says things and sentient beings do exist, but not in the way we perceive them – they are void of self and are therefore empty. The Kagu school are of the mindset that Form is emptiness & Emptiness is form.
        Julie

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      • Hi Julie I hope you will have a wonderful Easter holiday with loved ones.
        I am sure we will find some political topic again soon or the old ones will pop up in a new way. We will find a responsible and respectful way to discuss it.

        As for form and emptiness, this comes directly from the heart sutra and is at the heart of the Buddha’s teachings on this matter. Does the Gelugpa school not recognize or teach the heart sutra? I think you must?
        In the Kagyu schools we recognize the bliss or joy that arises when we realize the emptiness of the conditional world. How does one deal with the bliss in the Gelugpa tradition?

        QP

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      • Hi, yes Gelugpa tradition recognises the heart sutra and the bliss or joy that comes about with the realisation of emptiness in the conditional world. We do however also recognise that bliss and the feeling of bliss is an impermanent, empty state of mind. Because of this we know it will result in suffering. The reason is because eventually it will end, as we again move back & forth on the wheel of samsara until we reach Buddhahood

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      • Hi Julie
        On a relative level everything is conditioned and impermanent even joy and bliss. But I am talking about something else. There are three very interesting Tibetan words rangtong, shentong, and detong. Rangtong is empty of self-nature on the relative level. Some think that Rangtong is nihilistic. Shentong agrees with Rangtong but goes further to describe absolute reality, agreeing rangtong on relative reality but stating that absolute reality is “empty” only of “other” (or empty and) relative phenomena, but is itself not empty. This absolute reality is the “ground or substratum” which is “uncreated and undestructible, noncomposite and beyond the chain of dependent origination.”

        Detong is also very interesting. De comes from Dewa and means great bliss. So detong is seen as the great joy that arises from emptiness. This happens when mind recognizes its own radiant space.

        I think this explains my point a bit better, does it make sense?

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      • Hi there yes it does make perfect sense. In Gelug tradition we believe wholeheartedly that things exist. They must exist because we see and experience them. However, we do not accept they exist in the way we see or perceive them. The only reason we see things as independent and solid is because of the ego and ignorance around dependent origination. I’m unsure about Detong if I’m being honest, as when the mind reaches its own radiant space it will to my understanding not experience the sensation or emotion of great joy as we understand it. Whether there’s a different interpretation of joy I’m not sure. It’s interesting though. Julie

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      • Ok the first part about how things exist is very much the same. If you have the chance ask your lama about Detong it might be an insult discussion. I think that if enlightenment is not a happy thing then why are the Buddhas smiling?

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      • Hi there, I will ask but I don’t think it will be seen as an insult, questions are always welcomed. You’re right though some Buddha statues are laughing and some are deep in contemplation.
        Many of the smiling Buddha statues we find are actually Chinese, known as the fat Buddha or the smiling Buddha. As I understand it, he knows others can escape from the cyclic wheel of existence because he himself did – that’s why he’s laughing. Personally I believe the bliss we talk about in relation to enlightenment is void of self it’s neither happy nor sad. It’s just a clear space of all seeing all knowing.

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      • Oh and as to the mental health issue maybe it depends on the practice? Maybe some things are better than others? We primarily use Guru Yoga in meditation, I would not recommend it for sure someone under the care of a psychiatrist or someone who should be.

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